Be a Giving Real Estate Agent

Be a giving real estate agent. Some of the best and most fulfilled real estate agents in the business don’t “wait until I’m uber-successful until I give back.” Instead, they find a way to give what they can while they grow into their success.

That is the essence of Think Bigger Real Estate. It’s to be in constant pursuit of success AND significance, income AND impact. Today’s guest, Jeff Wiren, is well known for being this kind of agent and person.

His credentials include: President & Managing Principal Broker for Premiere Property Group, LLC, 2021 President-Elect for Oregon Realtors®, 2016 PMAR Realtor® of the Year, Past Chair for OREF Forms Committee & RMLS Board of Directors.

Jeff is going to share specifics of why, how and he has become a giving real estate agent.

Welcome back to the Think Bigger Real Estate Show. I’m your host, Justin Stoddart. I’m honored today to have somebody who’s been in the industry a long time. And he’s developed and created an amazing reputation for himself. Because of the way in which he’s really focused on serving and giving back, I can’t wait to introduce him to you, many of you already know him.

Before I do that, I want to remind you that inside of the think bigger Real Estate Group on Facebook, we take this learning that we take from amazing individuals like today’s guests, and we go deeper with it.

So if you’re interested in actually becoming a big thinker, high achiever, join the group, think bigger real estate on Facebook, and come engage in the conversation. That’s how you’re going to grow. Jeff Wiren is today’s guest, and Jeff it is such a pleasure to have you here. For those that don’t know, he’s the President Elect of Oregon Realtors. He’s also voted and I believe in 2016, as the PMAR Realtor of the Year.

So I’m extremely grateful to have him here and to have his heart poured into this industry.

Jeff Wiren, thank you for coming on the show today.

It’s an honor to be here, Justin, thank you.

I know you moved from one brokerage to another, it made some waves in the industry. You’re a guy who’s really like a rock in the industry, someone who really everyone kind of looking to. And when you made a move, it was like, oh, we’re all gonna at least pay attention to what’s happening here.

And I think you’ve done that because of the way that you showed up, right? You’re not somebody to just kind of jump from, you know, from one place to another. You’re methodical, you’re thoughtful, and you obviously landed in the place that you’re in for a specific reason.

Without kind of talking specifically about why you left or why you went to where you’re at, what have you tried to create in the brokerage, where you’re at, that cultivates this kind of culture that we’re going to talk about where it really encourages people to be givers, to be kind of servants, kind of servant leaders? What are your thoughts on that, Jeff?

Yeah, I appreciate that. You know, that was hard to believe, like over four years ago, when I made that brokerage change, and I had been at my previous brokerage since the start of my career. So I started there and was there for a little over 12 years. And I never really intended to make a change.

But I was approached by the ownership of Premiere Property Group. And they offered me a position that was a great position for me. And in looking at what the company was doing and how they were doing it, it was the right time for me, and I’ve never looked back and always been very proud to be where I’m at and what we do in our company for our agents.

And you know, to fit into your theme, Justin, I think I really look at selling is about serving, it always has been in my business, whether it’s serving clients or serving your industry, or even the agents that you work with. And leadership is that same thing. I’m a big believer in the servant leadership model, it’s been what’s taught to me through my faith, taught to me through the people that I know and respect in the world. And selling is all about that for me. So I’ve always felt that long term success is dependent upon long term relationships. And if you give more in service than you receive in commission to your clients, they’re going to work with you again, and they’re going to refer you, you know, you’ve had negative sales experiences, I’m sure I have to. And those are all situations where a salesperson was trying to take more and in money than they were willing to give him goods and services. Right. So it all comes down to that for your success.

You know, I love that I’ve heard and I think it’s actually from the book, the Go-Giver, and they talk about that value is how much more you give than what you get. And I think what you just described, there is a great way for all of us to live as we think about what we do for a living, how much did I take from that transaction and did I give more value than that, like did I give more? And if so then I gave value. And I think that’s the goal.

Is there something tactical that you could share with us you have that and I get that a lot of this isn’t just kind of a quick fix, apply this checklist. Instead, it’s deep from who you are and who you’ve become over the years. Is there some sort of paradigm shift or some coaching you give to all of us if we wanted to have our focus be more on that on really truly serving people? Any thoughts on that? I know it’s kind of hard to quantify, probably hard to kind of speak to that because it is who you are. But any advice insight around that how we can become better servant leaders? servant sellers, right.

Yeah, you know, I think the most tactical advice that I could give you is to really evaluate your marketing and the impact of that market. And if you’re a listing agent, what are you really doing to market that property?

And to be honest, Justin, you know, we see a lot of marketing in the industry, I’m sure you do too. And

I would love to see more of an attitude of abundance in regard to marketing than scarcity. I see a lot of agents, I believe that maybe don’t market the property as effectively as they could because of the market, they don’t need to write, you don’t need to spend a bunch of money to put it on the MLS and attract a bunch of buyers.

But you know, what, if you do spend, if you do make the spend, and you put a great, you know, 3d Matterport tour, and you do a twilight shoot, and you do all of the bells and whistles, and you have a phenomenal package, some agents would look at that and go, Well, that was a waste of money the house was going to sell anyway, I look at that, and say you’re showing your seller true value, you’re getting the best of what you’ve got. And that’s going to come back to you.

The next time that seller wants to sell a house, they’re going to remember the phenomenal job you did, every buyer who walks through the front door is going to walk through and go, Wow, these people are serious about selling, I better act quickly.

If I want to write an offer on this one, right? It always comes back. So I think that’s the most tactical advice that I could give is, you know, approach your marketing and how you market listings and how you market yourself from a matter of abundance instead of scarcity. It isn’t about how much can I save by not having to buy this flyer or having to do this virtual tour. It’s about how much of it more of an impact can I have to benefit my seller by making this marketing spend such profound thoughts.

And I think you know, I’m not here to bash any particular company or platform. But I am watching very closely some of the moves that Zillow right big platform is taking right now. And I know many agents potentially even including you, Jeff, have created a great business from that platform, or at least not. There’s something like many agents you work very closely with a half. Sure, you look like they’re profitable now for the second straight quarter, first time ever, and just paid 500 million for Showing Time, right, which is an app that allows agents to go schedule themselves, you realize that they’re really building an end to end platform for the consumer to really make the real estate transaction, a seamless experience for the consumer.

And for people to really go there first, when they think real estate they go to Zillow first. And that’s the goal. And I think when agents do what you just described, where they really kind of take shortcuts for short term gain, it hurts everybody. Right? Consumers are like asking, wait, why did I pay that much for what I got, for that, like photographs from their phone?

And I agree with you like, not only is it good for the industry, but it’s good for your business, I think some of the very best, probably referrals, repeat business exposure come when you go above and beyond to market a house. Even if it’s really truly altruistic for the client, what ends up coming back to you in the form of people really admiring the art that you do of marketing homes is, is unprecedented, right? I don’t think you can necessarily calculate the value of that for an individual’s business. So I love the fact that you said that.

Not Thank you, I appreciate that. And I would say you know, every platform has its right. And every platform has its place. And there’s a consumer for every model. So, you know, there’s no grudge there, there’s no problem. They’re great.

But I believe consumers are always going to be hungry for good advice and knowledgeable real estate professionals to help them with the biggest decision of their life. For most people in this country, their largest financial asset is their home and always will be.

So, you know, being cavalier about that decision is not something that most people are willing to do, they’re not just going to click and say, Okay, great, you know, this is a $500k to $700,000 investment, I’m going to, I’m going to make that decision by a point and click, they’re going to want a professional to help them. And I think that you know, there’s a place for every realtor listening to that if they’re willing to genuinely serve their client, like we talked about and, and put the client first.

No, I love this. And actually, in my book, The Upstream Model one of the things I talk about, Jeff is exactly that. The only way for agents to really remain at the center of the transaction and remain well paid to where consumers don’t just put you there because they always have, and that’s just kind of what they think they should do, They want you there because they need you there is for actually our industry to get better, right to get better every year.

And to apply the things that you’re talking about, like how can we add more value than we have in the past? This type of marketing used to work, it doesn’t necessarily do justice now, what more can I do to really give these consumers the very best experience and the best return right for them hiring me and I think that’s critical for anybody that really wants to have a long term career in this industry. We have to be asking ourselves, how do we get better right now? How do we just hoodwink people and tell them that we’re better but actually how do you actually produce more value and I think that’s the key of, of all this and kind of what you’re saying right is actually serving people

The most important thing that you can be done is you know, in the industry, that’s the benefit of competition, and always has been the from the start of capitalism. Right. So that’s good.

A little bit about now, I’m kind of pivoting to the next kind of segment here of giving back. Right, because the theme of this broadcast today, this interview, is about being a real estate agent that that gives. And I know, oftentimes we have the tendency, right, I’ve had this thought, in fact, it was actually a billionaire, his name is John Huntsman, Sr.

He, I heard his story. In fact, I think John Bogle, the founder of Vanguard told the story, he talked about how when he was John Huntsman was very young before he was ever a billionaire when he and his wife were living on very meager means. They decided that they were going to be philanthropists.

Now, sometimes you think philanthropists have to be very, very wealthy, they were not wealthy, but they still decided to give a certain amount of their income and of their time to causes the causes that they cared about. I’ve always thought about that. Because the tendency is, once I get to this point in my career, once I get to this net worth, then I’m really going to give back. And I don’t know that that necessarily happens, I feel like that, that that drive for more of like more about me becomes somewhat insatiable. And that never really happens. And I think you’re somebody who, who promotes from day one in the industry, be somebody who gives back, talk to us a little bit about like, what advice you would give to agents, who really truly want to be an agent that gives and build a legacy, not just a career.

Yeah, I would say, you hit the nail on the head in regard to I think a lot of people perceive giving back as a financial exchange. And I think the biggest principle is you have to remember that you can give your time you can give your talent, and of course, you can give your treasure. But in the absence of being able to give your treasure, you can still give your time and your talent.

And so bringing that back into the conversation about our industry and serving our industry, I was mentored by some wonderful people as a new agent, and recommended early on, get involved in the local association get involved in the state association. If you know, if you want to have an influence on how we do real estate in this market, you can’t simply sit around and complain about what you don’t like, you have to be willing to take action.

And so I prepared a few comments about that.

First and foremost, I genuinely believe you’re always going to get more than you give out of the service you provide to the industry, you’re building valuable relationships and networking with other professionals, you build a reputation in the industry. And that helps your clients at the bottom line through the cooperative benefit of those relationships.

I will tell you point-blank, Justin that I have presented offers for clients in multiple offer situations, and I’ve had a relationship with the other agent. Now I’m not going to be unfair and say that that other agent would ever recommend a seller to take my buyer’s offer at the seller’s disadvantage, just because of our relationship. But if all other things are equal, and you and I have worked together, and you’re like Jeff’s a pro, Jeff’s gonna get this thing done. And I don’t know the other agent or the other agents. But I know Jeff, and you know, the material other factors of the offer are all compellingly the same. what’s the, what’s the difference-maker, the difference-maker is Jeff’s a pro and I’ve worked with Jeff and I know him well. And I can trust him, and you can trust him, and he’s going to help us get this thing done… huge value there.

The other thing that I would say is, you know, this industry is constantly changing, isn’t it? And there’s constant threats to the industry. And it needs you.

There’s always going to be challenges. And there’s always going to be people who are willing to sit around and point out what those challenges are, and not do anything about it. We need people who want to participate in the solutions. And we need critical thinkers, right? Not just people who want the free donut in the free cup of coffee and want to have their name on the board of you know, being on the board of directors of whatever. But people who are willing to really read the material and say, wait a minute, what about this financial statement? Wait a minute, why are we getting this money? Why are we spending this money? How is this benefiting the average Realtor on the street to improve their business? It takes less time than most people think to do that. And the benefits are extremely tangible. I always have them for me.

That’s so much wisdom there, Jeff. It almost sounded like you’re starting to campaign for president. Because I think you’d have my vote. It was a great speech really to inspire all of us to think about how we can, you know, kind of consider our place in the industry.

I love what you said about kind of being like having critical thoughts. Right? Because I think in an information age, there’s no shortage of information, right? You can easily anybody can easily Google this and that, but then taking that information and really doing something intelligent with it. And being able to critically think and create solutions where there are real problems.

That takes time and attention. And like you said, there’s a difference between people who show up to be able to have some of the initials and accolades after their name as, as you have them after your name, but show up genuinely to give back to the industry and generally to become a part of the bigger solution. I was excited to get to hear you say that. I love that.

On the kind of tactical side, let’s say someone’s saying, like Jeff, like I’m, I’m working really hard right now, to get offers accepted. I’m working really hard to get more listings. And I don’t see my kids as often as I’d like.

And I want to give back, but it seems really difficult right now, how did you do it? Obviously, you have commitments even outside of your career, right, you’ve got now kind of new and different responsibilities within your industry?

How did you still make time for that without giving up things that matter even way more than real estate? To help us really kind of think bigger than real estate? How did you on the tactical level? How did you implement some of these things where you did have time for without sacrificing what a family or the success of your career business?

Well, it’s a good question. And, you know, I would say there’s always a sacrifice and an opportunity cost. So if you give back to the industry, it is going to take time, it’s going to take less time than you think. But it is going to take time. And there’s an opportunity cost to that time and a sacrifice to be made there. There just always will be. You have to look at the value. Right?

I regard to being a father, I love my kids. You know, the defining thing about my life is being a father. And I look back on my children who through two of the three of them are adults, and one of them assumed to be, and I could certainly look back and think of moments where Gosh, I wish I would have I wish it would have been home more. But I had to provide a living. And here’s the thing.

The reality for me is I was going to be at the office anyway. And I bet that if all of the folks listening to me right now, I’m resonating with you when I say if you really were at the office eight to 10 hours a day, right? What are you doing in that eight to 10 hours? Are you prospecting for eight to 10 hours? Are you actually dealing with the repair done for eight to 10 hours, I’m guessing there’s a lot of slush time built into that eight to 10 hours. So just use it more efficiently. That’s all.

Yeah, be as efficient as you can be recognizing Justin just like in your just like for yourself and what you’re doing with Think Bigger Real Estate, which is awesome, by the way, and I’m so honored to be here. Thank you that it’s about your life. It’s about the quality of your life. You could be doing other things with your time besides what you’re doing to help other realtors improve their lives. But don’t you get a reward from that don’t you benefit from helping others.

And at the end of the day, when you reach the end of the road and you want to retire someday and you want to look back on the legacy of your life. It’s not just about how many houses just sold.

It’s not just about how much your retirement account has in it. It’s how did you impact and positively improve the lives of the people that you got to be around every day? And if I got to work 50 to 60 hours a week. Man, I want that to be good, don’t you?

Yeah, boy, again, so many lessons. I just want to point out here on the screen, how many people are stepping up right now to give accolades to Jeff and just again goes to show the value that you’ve brought. I mean, this is right here is the validation of the fact of what you’re saying is that, that you’ve built not just success, you’re building significance, you’re really building a legacy. And I think you’re an example to all of us.

And to your point, it’s interesting how often times get asked about my podcast. And they’ll ask how like, what have the results been? Like how many viewers how many listeners how many, like you have to get clients from it. And I’m sure that there are absolutely results that have come from this.

But I always tell people, if nobody listened to this thing, I would still do it. And here’s why it has grown me into a person that number one I’m more proud to be now. And it’s grown me into somebody who’s a lot more helpful to the community, right to the real estate community, to the community at large, my family, that anytime you do things for a very short term gain, you end up short-circuiting your own success in your own progress in significant ways.

You can’t see right away you can’t see him in the short term, but it’s not so you get down, you know, three or four years down the road of doing a podcast, we realize like man, the number of friends that I’ve made the amount of growth that I’ve experienced the skills that I’ve gained, that I didn’t do it for that but man I’ve it’s it’s really contributed to my life.

And I think that’s what I hear you saying is that if people will actually take a look at this is going to be a sacrifice in the short term, no doubt. But at a more macro level, the amount of value that you’re going to get by really contributing to something bigger than just your own business is pretty phenomenal.

You just hit the nail on the head. Absolutely. You know, you and I, the sincere desire in my heart, and I think for most people is to be a part of something that’s bigger than themselves. And listen, that’s not just real estate, right? Yeah, we’re talking about service to the real estate industry right now. But that can be your church, that can be your family, that can be anything, right? Give yourself the for the betterment of the people around you, right?

The measure of your life isn’t valued on what you become. And I’m making this is not my quote. So I’m stealing somebody else’s quote, I don’t know whose it is, right. But the value of your life isn’t measured by what you become. It’s measured upon the impact you have on the people around you and what they become. And then that feels good, doesn’t it? You feel that you must feel that every day, Justin, when somebody says, Justin, you really had an impact on my life? That’s your real paycheck, man, isn’t it?

It is. Yeah, yeah, there’s, there’s you can’t replace that feeling with with with anything else. So I’m, I guess I’m hoping that anybody who’s listening here today, there’s maybe in that spot where it’s like, boy, I’d sure like to contribute. I don’t know how I’m gonna find the time.

I would encourage you to do what Jeff just described is that actually put it in is one of the big rocks. The late Stephen R. Covey taught us this analogy of rocks, big rocks, small rocks, sand, and water. But if you try and put in all the water first, that’s the only that’s going to fit sand is going to fit. And I would say the day to day mundane activities that all of us have to do to generate new business is probably the sand, maybe the small rocks. These big rocks are the things that actually cause us to create a legacy and actually give back in the lives of other people serve at a higher level.

When those things go in first, it’s amazing how almost everything else starts to fit. I mean, they always say, if you really want something done, give it to a busy person, the reality is like like you said, Jeff, if you start to actually start to include some of those big rocks in your life, you’re gonna be amazed at how much some of those other things fit.

And even some of the stuff that the small rocks will get easier as you described, you’re gonna start to get offers accepted because the agent on the other side serves alongside you on some Board of Directors saw what an honest and in true person you are, as a reliable person. And so like some of this stuff just starts tip, actually, the pursuit of significant starts to really help in your pursuit of success unknowingly, right?

Yeah, absolutely. You know, the other point I would make about services, it takes guts, right? It takes real guts to be a dissenting voice in a room full of 20 people questioning something. It takes guts even just to ask the question when everybody else seems to know already, right?

So my genuine hope from this is that there are going to be some people listening to this who think I’ve ever thought about serving on the RMLS board of directors. I’ve never thought of serving at PMAR or Women’s Council of Realtors or whatever. Now I am. And maybe you’ll go to one of those meetings, and you’ll be looking at the agenda and you’ll have a question. And you’ll just seem to think, Well, everybody else seems to have to figure it out. I don’t want to ask my question. It feels stupid. It takes guts to ask the question. It takes guts to be the only no vote when 19 other people vote yes, but you’re firmly convicted, that this is not something that the organization should move forward with and do.

And that is the kind of leadership Justin that we need. We don’t need people to show up for the donut, just say yes, because everybody else did. We need people who are willing to look at it to know, hey, this is the truth. This is the right way forward. And I believe in it enough that even though I’m the only one, I have to say it. Those are true leaders.

It’s powerful stuff. Jeff, I don’t know that I can add too much more than that. It’s fantastic. Thank you so much for everything that you’ve shared there. I want to do a couple more things. Number one, you’ve got something that you’re pretty passionate about inside your organization, right circle of giving toughest a little bit about that how agents that are listening right now might be able to contribute kind of on this path to significance.

How does it work? What does it like to go towards?

Please tell us more about it? Awesome. Yeah, thank you for that opportunity. PPG is a great company. And you know, as the president of the company, is very passionate about how we do what we do. And one of the pillars of our company is what we call our circle of giving program within the company. It is not currently a 501 c three nonprofit, but we’re working to get it there. So in the meantime, as an agent, you know, you can contribute to the circle of giving through your company fees, okay, and it’s a write off as a company fee.

But that money goes into three different buckets. We donate to a local nonprofit or a local chapter of a large nonprofit. So we’re our current quarterly charity is the Salvation Army, which is obviously an international organization, but they have a local chapter that we’re contributing to. And every region that we serve, we try and offer some funds 50% of the funds that we receive, go to that local nonprofit every quarter and we have.

We also have to offer our agents an opportunity to give their time and their talent in addition to their treasure. by serving, if we did the food pantry one month, we will give you a service opportunity to actually go to the food pantry, which we’ve done. We’ve done Habitat for Humanity we’ve done, you know, so many other things I could spend a whole hour rattling off about.

So 50% of the money goes there, we also then take some of that money. And we give it to agents within our company who have a need. So, for example, give you a great example. And I don’t know if the person who benefited from this is listening, I hope not to embarrass him, I won’t give their name.

But we had an agent and there was a communication problem in a transaction, the principal broker called me, Hey, we haven’t been able to get ahold of your agent we’re trying to close tomorrow. I called the agent, he called me back and he said, I really apologize, I’ll deal with the issue. But I just want you to know, my daughter has been diagnosed with leukemia, and we’ve been up at the Doernbecher Children’s Hospital, and we’ve been dealing with medical bills, and blah, blah, blah. So I was able to take that request to our circle of giving and say they’re dealing with stuff, can we offer them some type of a financial award to help with their circumstance, we immediately approved a $2,000 spot award for our agents.

The next day, I was at his house delivering a $2,000 check to help with their medical expenses, I got to meet his daughter, they had come back home from Doernbecher and so being able to offer that through our brokerage to our agents is of benefit, huge man, absolutely huge. And then we regularly have agents who want to do spot awards, maybe they want to do light the night walk, or have a table at a homeless shelter or something like that, or a seminar where they say a lot for 250 bucks, I can put up a table. But for $500, I can put up like a booth with PPG helped me with that, we won’t do it on behalf of worthy agent will offer a matching grant essentially so that the agent can have themselves and the Premiere Property Group logo at that event and give the benefit to the entity who they’re happy to benefit.

Those are the three ways we get back agents can easily you know, make a one-time donation, they can donate through every commission check, I personally have every commission check, I get 100 bucks.

And you know what Justin, out of 100 out of the size of the commission check $100 You don’t even feel it. But at the end of the year, when you close 30 or 40 deals, you’re given three to $4,000 to an awesome cause. And you can just see the benefit across multiple layers of the community. As a result. It’s awesome. And it’s a great program.

Well, it’s a collective effect of a whole bunch of people doing that right person stepping up following your example. And what ends up happening is somebody’s life, somebodies lives are impacted in pretty significant ways. Absolutely takes a village.

So exciting. Jeff talked to us about this, the kind of final question that I want to go to now is that you’re a Big Thinker, again, kind of redefining what sometimes the people that when they heard that hear the term, think bigger real estate. They just think like more production, more production at at at all costs, right? That’s not what this is about.

It’s about actually pursuing success and significance.

Do you need to be successful? Yes, I believe that your clients are better served when you are successful when you don’t need this deal to close… success is important.

I agree.

And I think the significance is the ultimate quest for all of us. What is the kind of a final bit of advice you could give to us, Jeff, on what you do to continue to be a Big Thinker to continue to grow yourself and expand your possibilities? What does that look like for you?

Boy, that’s a great question. And I don’t know that I can answer quickly. But I’ll try.

I think it really comes down to the whole premise of this show. And the theme of this show is I don’t go into my career, I don’t go into my appointments, thinking, “What can I get out of this?”

I go into it thinking, what can I do to help the person that I’m in front of right? Now we all have to earn a living? And, and I know that there are people listening to us think “Well, that sounds really Pollyanna Jeff, and that’s great, but we got a mortgage to pay.”

Yeah, you do, but I’m just going to tell you point-blank, if you genuinely embrace it in your heart, that your whole career is about service, not just serving your industry, but really serving your clients. And if you really go into every appointment, putting that client first, you’re gonna win in the big picture and you’re gonna have a career like no other. I mean, it will provide for you and give you more financial opportunities than you could even begin to imagine.

And I’m to a certain degree speaking especially to newer agents right now. Don’t go into it with “Well, I have to have to encourage somebody to sell their house even if I don’t necessarily think that’s the best thing for them.”

No, you don’t. You have to be honest with them and tell them what you honestly think is the best thing for them because the listing you don’t take today will turn into five referrals tomorrow. Absolutely. I’ve seen it in my own career more times than I can tell you. So maybe that’s my big thing.

Fantastic, Jeff, such great insight. Again, we’ve got comments blowing up here, people just touched by the man that you are. So thank you for not only being that person but would be willing to come on and share some insight with all of us on how to be a giving real estate agent, it’s been a total pleasure to get to connect with you.

Thank you for being that great example, to me.

I’ll add in one thought that I had here at the end is that oftentimes real estate agents put a lot of pressure on themselves. And I feel like that pressure would alleviate if all of a sudden it became instead of inward focus, became outward focus. Is it all this concern of like, I got to produce at a certain level if you just went out with Jeff’s mentality, and what he just described here, I’ve gone on saying, I’m going to go out and I’m going to be, I’m going to be big for other people, I’m going to really show up big for them and serve them in a big way. I think that the job itself gets a lot more enjoyable, and it takes the pressure off of you. Because now it’s just about them. It’s not about you anymore.

Thank you. Such a pleasure. Thank you so much. And I look forward to staying in contact.

And for everybody listening out there. Thanks for your comments. Again, so fun to see everybody chiming in here. And I look forward to the next time we get a chance to be together.

My final request of everybody listening here today are these three simple words and they are GO THINK BIGGER.

Jeff, thank you for helping us define what really that means. It was an honor to be here today.

Justin, thank you so much for having me.