Justin Stoddart
Hey, welcome back to the Think Bigger Real Estate Show. I’m your host Justin Stoddart fired up about today’s episode. We have an absolute superstar on the show with us today, who’s going to help us navigate this question. Obviously, we know that the industry has a number of disruptors circling, we know that real estate agents have more of a need today to be on their A game serving the customer at the highest level possible. And today’s guest, Jason Abrams, he’s a Keller Williams agent out of Michigan, although he owns teams all over the place. He’s been selling homes for 20 years, right out of high school stepped right into his real estate name badge. He’s a broker-owner, a team owner, he was actually on HGTV, if some of you remember this show, it was HGTV, it was “Scoring the Deal” in which he would facilitate the purchase of beautiful homes by sports stars. Sounds like a cool show. I haven’t seen it actually. But you’ve got me super interested to go back and find
Jason Abrams
the only people that want my mom watched it regularly.
Justin Stoddart
It was with three seasons. I don’t buy that, Jason.
Jason Abrams
Just you and $13 million. Man. That’s all.
Justin Stoddart
the truth. There’s the truth. In addition, Jason is the partner in metrics coaching and training, which we’re going to talk a little bit about as well. So with that, Jason, thank you for coming on the show today. It’s a total pleasure to have you here.
Jason Abrams
It’s an honor. Thanks for having me.
Justin Stoddart
Yeah, this guy is a big thinker. He’s actually spending a fair amount of time right now in Austin, helping to develop technology that serves the customer and agent at the highest level. So, Jason, let’s get into this. We have, as we all know, a very changing, disrupting real estate landscape. What can we expect before I do that? Because we’ll get into business and we won’t stop. I know. Kind of that’s my nature. So let’s talk about stuff that matters a little bit more than business right now. I know you’re a dad, I’m a dad. And that is probably the reason why we’re deeply invested in the real estate industry is to provide a better life for people. Are people right that matter? Most? I mean, what’s your favorite part about being a dad, Jason?
Jason Abrams
yes to… Everyone always asks about the technology and the real estate business off the bat, they very rarely go to What’s your favorite part about being a parent? And I’ll tell you, it’s challenging, no question about it. But I think that it gives you this idea of this immersive experience, which I think is unique to our industry. And that residential real estate is really a contact sport. And it’s an all-time game, meaning we don’t start our day at nine and end our day at five and then go home and have the luxury most of us to just specifically that focused on the family. And I think what it does, we bring our customer lives into our own we bring our business lives into our personal lives, in our personal lives in your business life. This idea of immersion, I think, is one that as we move forward, you’re going to see more education go to which just, I’m not just going to school from 7 am to 2:45 pm. To learn, I’m going to learn in every aspect of my life. And the most important thing to learn is how to learn, not whether I get the right answer. But what was the process that I took to get there? For me watching a six come to terms with how he’s going to solve life’s challenges, which to him see massive, like, how do I open this applesauce. And it’s these constant reminders that the journey that we’re all on… does it end? It simply changes form. And I think about that a lot.
Justin Stoddart
And that’s powerful. It’s almost as if like, we’d practice that question before. And folks, we did not tell people that I’m in a hurry. So I love what you said there. Jason reminds me of the university president where I first went to school, it was a two year school, he was a new president. He turned out to be a very influential person in the world as well as in my life. And he told a group of business students in their freshman year because like the question was asked, what should I focus on education, he said, here’s the reality is that there are two things that you need to walk away from with your education. And neither one of those is a degree like that’s, that’s like, like second-third tier that doesn’t matter as much. Here the things you need to learn is, like number one, you need to gain a passion and a love for learning. And secondly, you need to learn how to learn, he said those two things will carry you further than any degree ever will. In fact, newsflash, the stuff that you’re learning here at school, a lot of it’s going to be obsolete by the time you get into the workforce. So you better love to learn and you better know how to learn. Because without that, it’s, you know, you’re going to be behind really, really quickly. So I love what you said about that I happen to be a father as well. And I think bigger, I’ve got six kids, little crazy.
Jason Abrams
You do think big.
Justin Stoddart
I do, I do with all areas of life, we, I have a saint for a wife, st slash superhero. Fact, currently, she’s on the road with six kids driving them all to North Dakota, and you know what it’s like, up north, you’re a northern guy. And so things a little quieter in my house, eerily quiet. But I love what you said about this, this passion for learning and watching kids learn that’s really, really profound.
Jason Abrams
I just don’t think they perceive it the way I think that we all sit around and try to force ourselves to do activities that we don’t like, thinking that those activities are mandated stops along the path of success. I think kids are living this immersive experience differently than we are and that it’s organic for them. And I’m kind of looking back at my life at different times and asking when I decided mentally to make that shift and why I did it. And trying to get back to the organic part of learning.
Justin Stoddart
Just that pure learning at its core, like just out of curiosity right now, because someone’s telling you I have to.
Jason Abrams
curiosity and necessity, like a lot of us know, we need to learn new things. But we don’t because the process to do it is one that we find challenging, and I and I get it we usually leave the challenging things for last or sometimes not at all. Yeah, I think the question is flawed, which is how do I force myself to do things I don’t want to do whether that’s going to the gym every day or read a book every we have these things? And we say, Well, how do I make that habit? I think a better question. You ask the wrong question. You always get the wrong answer. The question that I like is how do I love my life and accomplish blank. And when you start thinking in that framework, all of a sudden, you’re forced to take activities you wouldn’t want to do but then make it so you would enjoy it. Tell you what, if you enjoyed the things that you shouldn’t be doing, you should do more of the wrong things. Find a way to enjoy the stuff that you want to bring into your life like kids, do. I tell you what, there’s no way
Justin Stoddart
how to get the life you want. Or sorry, how to get what you want and love it. Those are the two.
Jason Abrams
How do I love my life and do blank?
Justin Stoddart
That’s awesome stuff, man. Let’s parlay into business as that kind of the path that I was headed down, obviously very changing real estate landscape. Consumers are gaining more and more. and rightfully so right? We live in an era when consumers are getting more power. They’re having more choices. How does a real estate agent that wants to serve a customer knowing that serving a customer the highest level will ensure that they have work to do for the rest of their career? What advice would you give a real estate agent that’s coming into this era that’s living in this era? About that about how do I continue to serve the customer at the highest level?
Jason Abrams
The only thing I want to take a little bit of exception, I don’t think the consumer is gaining more power than they’ve had. I think they’re being empowered to use their power. Many we both know that it’s always been 100% up to the consumer. How do I price my house? Which agent do I said to do business with? What marketing plan? Do I accept? How much am I willing to pay a commission? All of these things have always been up to the consumer. It’s only now with these changes in technology that I think they’re starting to feel more empowered to either wade into these conversations or be used different services that offer different value propositions. Yeah, I fundamentally believe that people do business with people they like. See, I think that there’s a lot of things in life that you can automate that you choose not to because you enjoy the experience. So real estate agents, I need to fundamentally look at the way that consumer experience is being provided with their value, and then ask, do they like that and is the way they want it to continue? I was I was speaking the other day in front of a group. And I was relaying a story that in 2000 Rolling Stone did this article that said, the movie theater is dead. They said that you have plummeting ticket sales, you have the cost of flat screen TVs going down and the number of home theaters being put into new builds is going up. And this is all a perfect storm in the movie theater is dead. And somebody read that and said you know what? They’re right. Somebody else read that and said, you know, it’s not the movie theater. That’s that’s the consumer experience. Once they’re there that is meaning what if instead of going there and fighting for a seat, they could go on to their phone and in two clicks pick the seat they want and not have the anxiety of worrying about it. And what if once they got there, instead of being an uncomfortable chair, it was a leather recliner. And what if once you got you were watching the movie, instead of hoping that your significant other leaves you some popcorn, which they don’t but just pretend they did? What if you can get into the popcorn all together and have a full steak dinner? And what if instead of a diet coke served in like a garbage can size drink? You could get like a bottle of wine? And And what if with all of that the cost really did not have to materialize change. And for everyone watching, I would say Raise your hand if you’ve been to a theater like that most of you would all Raise your hands because movie ticket sales are at an all-time high. So the question isn’t was the theater dead? The question is, was the experience. And when we start thinking in that framework, real estate agents who are are so progressive in the way that they thinkable to move so quickly, and the way they run their businesses, I would challenge every one of them, wake up tomorrow and ask a childlike question of your business, which is, is this the right way to do it? And what could I make cooler and feel better? And there’s no end to the innovation that they can have? The realtor today is in a better position than ever before. And I say that because right now, you get to reimagine almost every part of your business. It’s those of us that don’t do that, that choose to shirk from the innovators’ dilemma of a reimagining of it that I think are going to be important. There was a CNBC article out with Jeff Bezos the other day. And they said to him, they said, Why does so few people innovate? He said, Well, it’s hard. Number one, you first have to become an expert in the subject matter. So if you and I were going to innovate, I surgery he said, we will both have to become experts in the way I surgery is done today. And that might take 20 years. And then at that point, we would have to be willing to ask a childlike question, which is if we threw all that out, what would be a better way to do it? And most people at the 20 years that hit a point don’t want to ask that question. They want to just be an achievement phase. And innovation gets stifled. I would submit to you that the challenge before all realtors is they finally have to ask that question. A childlike curiosity question? How can I reimagine showing a home tomorrow such that the buyer would be unwilling to not look at homes with me? How can I reimagine lead generation such that it woke up every day excited about doing it? How can I reimagine the selling process such the consumer would never think about taking a third party offer from a buyer, they would have to call a realtor because they would enjoy it that much. See, that’s the free market at best. And we’re at a time it’s I think it’s about the show.
Justin Stoddart
You know, I love that. I do feel like there’s been a lot of heels digging in. A lot of let’s sue them. So they can’t do this. Let’s build a moat around what we’ve built for decades like nobody can take this from us. Where I agree that’s that that proposition will lose, right? Because you’re it’s a scarcity mindset, rather than how can I leverage the new technology out there and serve the customer at a higher level? How do I take my value proposition from here to here as a result of what’s out there as opposed to feeling threatened by it? How do I embrace it to better serve the customer? And I love what you said, reimagine the customer experience be like what would make people so delighted to work with me? That, like these other options, like they get that? Yeah, there’s a buyer program. Yeah, there’s even kind of the part-time hobby agents. And then there’s my agent, and it’s apples to oranges. It’s not the same thing, right? It’s like,
Jason Abrams
yeah, and you know, you’re exactly right. Keep in mind that one of the things that make our industry so unique is the way that the structure provides that all of us are running a ton of his businesses, even if we’re at the same brokerage house, you know, and that allows every one of us to have a unique value proposition. And I believe the natural order of things that works best is when the real estate agent is at the center of the transaction, providing a value proposition that the consumer and the realtor both agree is worth blank. Now what blank is in regards to commission is open for every real estate agent to defend and every seller and buyers agent to get to the side. And when we operate under that framework, it should force us all to get better at what we do. And by the way, this idea that we’re that one company is going to be at the forefront of it or two companies, you’re going to be at the forefront of it. I’ll tell you this, it works best with 1.3 million agents, regardless of affiliation, or at the forefront of it. That’s what I’m hoping you see. Yeah.
Justin Stoddart
Yeah, and I, I do agree with you that there there’s a group and I’m not necessarily tied to an age demographic, I mean, I see the same resistance and agents that just got started or have been in the business five years. But this unwillingness to innovate and to be excited about the future of real estate as opposed to the sky is falling. In real estate. I don’t think that’s the right approach. powerful stuff.
Jason Abrams
If everybody, if anybody out there thinks that the sky is falling, let’s just a brief history lesson. This isn’t the first time in our industry, when you’ve had people come in and try to disrupt it or change the way they’re doing it. I would submit to you that the quote-unquote, business graveyards are full of people who thought they were going to come in and fundamentally changed the residential real estate business. And it’s the ability of the real estate agent to stay likable with their consumer and stay at the center of the transaction that’s confounded all of these different tech enterprises and third parties. And I’ll tell you this, there are a lot of brokers out there that don’t understand that either. But we need to be cognizant of the fact that she, we lose the human interaction with our consumers, then we’ve really ceded our superpowers to the competition. Meaning that I believe that everything that’s out there now and I can only speak to, to, to what I’ve seen, the technologies that work the best are the ones that make the real estate agent more human more often and with more people. Never forget, this has always been a knuckle to knuckle belly to belly business and relationships are going to be made sitting at kitchens with people. The question is, is will those relationships be nurtured over the long term using different pieces of technology. And one of the things we need to be cognizant of is agreeing that the changes that are happening within our industry serve to move the industry forward, trying to fight the fact that the consumer mindset is changing is a losing battle. We need to look up and grab our arms around because I’ve been to conferences where I hear people talking about the future of the residential real estate business. And then it dawns me that the people I’m listening to have never sold a home a day in their life. And I just want every real estate agent to hear this. They don’t get to decide what happens to the future of your real estate business. You and the consumer get to make that decision.
Justin Stoddart
You know, I want to put highlights friend of mine, Harris, out of Vancouver, maybe Joe Harris, the best way to be technology is to be more human. I also want to say, you know, Jason, just to clarify, and you’ve said this, but I want to clarify that it’s not enough to just be likable, you actually have to be better as well. Or you actually have to have a strong value proposition. I think a lot of agents think that they’re going to friend their way through industry disruption. I agree wholeheartedly with you that you absolutely have to be likable. But you’ve said this, but I just want to put it into one statement. Like you’ve got to be very likable. But you actually have to have a value proposition that’s strong enough to where the consumer is, sees your feet as like that there’s an ROI on that, that I’m getting value from that.
Jason Abrams
That Well said, That’s exactly right. And here’s the thing, if the value proposition was- here’s the focusing question, what value would I have to provide so that I take all my listings at 12%? And, you know, that should be the conversation. And if you have that conversation long enough, there’s no reason why our industry won’t get to that point.
Justin Stoddart
Yeah. Good stuff. So if you were an agent today, how do you tactically start to implement this? What does this look like for agent boots on the ground? who’s out there trying to implement be more likable? Give us a couple of tactics on how you be more likable, Jason, you’re a pretty likable guy,
Jason Abrams
oh, thanks for saying, Yeah, well, I think number one, it starts with figuring out who you need to be likable to so every real estate agent out there, and I don’t care whether you sell 10 homes a year or 10,000 homes a year, the base of your business begins and should have a foundation around your sphere of influence. those that know you, like you, friend, family, neighbor pass-fail to pass club, we need to reconnect with that group of people, mainly because doing one transaction is great. But being a real estate agent for life as a true advocate is far better. When I teach in rooms, and I always say raise your hand, if you have past customers that you haven’t spoken to, in the last 90 days, 120 days, everyone raises their hand. And I would submit to you that that’s an epidemic, we can only care about people when it comes time to do a transaction with them. Because I think that makes you are less likable. You see the people that are in your data bank. And I call it that because if you fail to make deposits of love and connection into it, you’ll never make withdraws in the form of commission checks. People do business with people they like isn’t that they smile when they see you. It’s that they know that you care about them. And so here’s the challenge that I would give every realtor, if you were to go through your data bank right now and make your list and I was to ask you about that person’s family, occupation, recreation, and life dreams? How many Could you tell me, and if you can’t tell me I call that for right. And that was written by an amazing woman named Diana Kafka. You can’t tell me, the Ford about those people. I don’t know really how likable they think you are to them. And I’m not really sure that they’re still your people. And in a day and age of technology, and artificial intelligence with third parties are literally trying to take your people from you. And they’re using search. And they’re using automated value. And using all of these other things to do that. This is your weapon to fight back. So step number one, aggregate your people and know who they are. Step number two is getting those people into some sort of a platform that allows you to keep in touch with them with not only consistently, but with passion, meaning that I’m going to send touches that people actually care about. And let me begin by just asking, How am I showing up for my people right now? Meaning Am I sending them one too many emails about like how to get your house ready for the fall? And is that connecting with them? Is that meaningful? This one too many ideas has to become more of a one to one idea. Yeah. And then the third thing is you’re going to have to find a way to intersperse making these connections with people into your life in a way that you enjoy it. The fact that I say to a room, how many of you have touched base with your past clients, and so few of them can raise their hand? Well, if you actually enjoy doing that, I bet you would do it more often. And so I don’t know, maybe counting the number of contacts you make tomorrow isn’t the best pitch for you. But maybe talking about the number of people who you learn something about and enjoy the interaction with would be a good way to judge.
Justin Stoddart
I love it. Very tactical tips. Awesome stuff. Jason, I like keeping these interviews short, I feel like I want to keep you on just because I’m learning so much from you. If people are feeling the same way, as I know, like Justin, don’t end the interview, this guy is really, really bright. I’m going to I’m going to end with our signature question. And then I want to direct people to where they can find more about your coaching company and how to how to continue to learn from you. Thanks, there’s an important thing is to find mentors, people that that you know, with whom you resonate. So here’s the signature question of the show. Jason, what does a guy like you who is a big thinker? What is it that you do on a regular basis to stay that way to not get content to continue to think big and expand your own possibilities?
Jason Abrams
Again, I should have watched the show. So I knew the signature question before you asked it. So I’ll make sure to keep watching from now on. I’ll tell you, man, I do a lot of reading. And you probably hear that from everybody that comes in. But I spent so many years of my life trying to avoid reading before I finally started to enjoy it. Now I wish I would have spent so much more time doing it. I really think in today’s day and age where information moves at the speed of now you have to have a regular cadence of how you’re going to bring information into your life on a daily basis. So I wake up in the morning, my business partner Brian goober, Nick says he always says, what makes you weird. My morning cadence is probably a little bit weird. I’m not waking up at 430 and eating a vegetable, baby food and then running an Iron Man, I am waking up though naturally, probably around 630. And then I have five or six websites that I’m going to check every day, I’m going to look into the thought leaders within the industry, I have a couple of blogs that I follow. And then I’m going to be checking the news not just in the United States, but around the world so that it can better understand how the global economy is working. Then once I get into my day, in my calendar, I have these 15-minute slots to stop what I’m doing and just try to read if I try to read from within 15 minutes, I have a hard time I try to do that five or six times a day. What here’s what I think you’ll find, if you start bringing new ideas into your life for smaller increments throughout the day, it’s going to elevate the way that you think during your entire day. If you try to read for two hours at the end of the day, you’re going to find that it only permeates that small segment right before and right after.
Justin Stoddart
powerful stuff, man, I haven’t heard that. But it’s the same thing with diet, right? Those that are super fit. They say small meals, right? every two hours high in protein. And what you’re teaching is the same thing for your mind really is is you know, every couple of hours, you’re taking 15 minutes, kind of a small, high potent high energy value content, putting it in your mind so that you can move and act with it for the next two hours until you need a refresh.
Jason Abrams
Yeah, and I and I enjoy it in 15-minute increments, I don’t enjoy it and 25-minute increments. And that goes back to what I said at the beginning. How do I love my life and blank in this case, it was how do I love my life and start reading more. And I started without, we’re down to 15 minutes now. I don’t think I can get it any shorter than that. I just have to do it now more often. But that’s what I mean with that kind of thinking framework.
Justin Stoddart
Now, do you read? Or do you listen? What’s your what’s your
Jason Abrams
I actually read it
Justin Stoddart
paperback book or you have it like on your phone?
Jason Abrams
No, I like pages. I like turning them. I like writing. You know, I think that for everyone watching I always say whenever you listen to anybody, you either need to get a system or a model. And if you don’t, it just becomes this wandering meander through their life and how they think about it. So when you say to me when I say the model here is how do I live my life and do blank. That’s the structure. Then I asked myself, well, what’s the overall strategy here? Well, I want to get smarter by reading. Well, what tactic Am I going to use, I’m going to read four times a day five times a day at the smaller increments. When you start to work in that framework, you can solve any problem.
Justin Stoddart
It’s good stuff, man. so powerful. I want to make one more highlight of something you said during the show that hopefully people didn’t miss, which is this whole concept of being likable, right is that people like real estate agents know far more than even their clients necessarily need to know a lot of times. But people don’t care how much you know, until they know how much you care like that. That foundational step of what you said of actually knowing what’s happening in their life not only allows you to customize your knowledge to get them to where they want to go. But it also opens their heart and their minds where they want to listen to you because they actually like you. So appreciate the wisdom you shared in all areas of life, everything from fatherhood, to growing yourself being a big thinker to thriving during this new generation and which were reimagining the customer experience. Jason it’s been a total pleasure want to thank you for pouring into the bigger real estate audience today. super happy and excited to have you in my network when it’s a keras again for his comment, and so many others that are watching and I look forward to connecting with you in the future my friend.
Jason Abrams
Cool. Thanks for having me guys. Good luck, everybody.
Justin Stoddart
Right. Hey, and one last thing everybody go think bigger!